my Harris for some reason doesn't want to go any lower than 1lb. 8oz. He flew well on Wednesday albeit a little heavy and I did not feed him yesterday. Yet he still weighs the same. I certainly don't feed him to any extreme and I don't want to keep not feeding for a day or so. Any suggestions? Clive
You shouldn't have too much problems dropping his weight. How is he doing now?
I find they drop weight much faster when they are out in the cold. Also if you are not going to fly him try getting him to do hop ups, I do this indoors to very small pieces of meat, I throw it onto the floor, and then get him to hop up to my glove, this seems to burn off quite a bit, and also helps to build his muscle.
Also don't forget that muscle is quite heavy, so as your hawk becomes fitter his flying weight may rise a little
Owen, thanks for the reply, I have now got him down to 1lb. 6 3/4oz. He responds really well at 1lb. 6 1/4oz. I took him out over the weekend so he had a fair bit of excercise. By the weekend he should be about right. He gave us a scare this morning. I took him to one of the places I shoot, and after some good flights he decided to fly up and back into the wood, (which is quite dense), after about 10 minutes we couldn't see or hear him but he came down as soon as I started swinging the lure with pheasant wings on. I let him have a chicks head and decided to come home until tomorrow. Clive
I've been having the same trouble with one of my male Harris'. He flies at 1lb 6oz but after a kill last week i fed him up on pheasant. He went up to 1lb 8 overnight and held that weight for 2 days even with reduced rations. On the third day his weight dropped back to 1lb 6 as quickly as He'd put it on!
Hi all again, well the weight is down to 1lb.6 1/2oz. but he just wont co-operate. He usually flies well at this weight but he just sits in the trees. I don't want to drop him too much in case he goes low but I am getting jittery about letting him go. He is hungry as when we get home he flies about wanting feeding but just doesn't want to play out in the field!!!!
My initial guess would be 1 of 2 things, go back to basics and teach him to follow on again, or use a dead bunny (or dummy bunny) and let him "catch it" and feed up a bit.
Hi Owen, thanks for the reply. The bird is 14 months old, he was a late hatcher last year so I got him early January. There are very few dogs where I have been lately but he is not too bothered by them. He has been following on quite well but as I said last post, he doesn't seem to want to play!! I use both dummy-bunny and fresh dead rabbits, as well as partridge and pheasant wings. I think this weekend I will maybe drop him to about 1lb. 6oz. and see how he goes. We have tried flying him from fist to fist but as he is free he usually goes up in the trees. Perhaps a spell back on the creance might help? regards Clive
What do you mean when you say he doesn't want to play??
He follows on ok but flys to the trees wheneevr he is free and is tough to get back?
If that is the case, Shaun is proably right, don't forget that a hawk should start his new season at a lesser weight than at the end of the previous season, due to lack of muscle, Fester for instance finished last season at 1lb 7, and started this season at 1lb 6 1/4.
I would also be a bit wary of reintroduction of varying lures at the same time, make sure he is confident with a dummy bunny, and then use a swing lure, use a single(probably bunny) lure for the time being, until he is sound again, and then re intoruduce the swing lure.
otherwise while you are calling him or using a dummy bunny, he might just be waiting for his favorite, contrarry to the advice of some falconers, I would not use a lure for a broadwing too much, if he won't come for a tidbit, the offerr im a whole chick, and bring him down, then drop his weight, and then try again, the last thing you want is a lure bound hawk :)
When I say that he doesn't want to play, I mean that he just sits in the trees/bushes and is not responsive. He was at 1lb. 6oz. yesterday and he flew superbly. I agree with you all, he was too heavy but is flying well again and comming when I hide out of site and call him. We saw a few rabbits yesterday but he wasn't interested; I cast him into a nearby tree and flushed one out by throwing a stone where it was. The rabbit ran out, (20 yards away from him) and he watched it go, then dropped down and picked up the stone and came to me with it!!!!!! Ho hum. thanks for your replies, Clive
thats about right,my female harris watched a pheasent walk past and then grabbed a pine cone as it fell out the tree,had a ten minute battle trying to get it off her.
about missbehaving i would not worry about it to much, you have to remember he is still a child, and will behave like a child,mine has hers stress days,she has days where to likes to play,she has a couple of tennis balls she is slowly de fluffing.
just remember do not drop there weight too much,if feeding chicks take the yokes out this will feed them but drop there weight slowly.
Hi Penny, I'm glad I'm not the only one!! He is flying superbly at present, he is around 1lb. 6 1/4oz. in the morning. I take him out for a couple of hours, 2 chicks in bits and some steak. I weigh him in the afternoon and he's around 1lb. 8oz. I take him out again and he flies like in the morning. He responds to both dummy-bunny and pheasant wings on a lure excellently but doesn't seem to be too interested at flying at quarry. I know it will come but as I'm off work sick at present, it would have been nice to get everything together all at once. Clive
if your flewing him for quarry, i would not feed the night before, if your just out flying then by all means take chick bits, i.e legs and heads.
if i go out i take bits but do not offer any unless to get her out of a tree,then as she lands the food is removed.
i only give mine steak when she is not flying, i find steak and pigeon,rats, do put the weight on.
also remember to remove the yokes as they are very fattening as well, but don't forget to give aleast a rat,quail,mice to them once a week for the calcium.
Hi Andy, The bird was born, 31/10/01; I have had him since January 5th. '02. He has flown at weight from 1lb. 6oz. to about 1lb.8oz. He is fully trained as far as following on, chasing the lures etc. We go out with the intention of hunting but he doesn't chase any quarry, ie. rabbits or pheasant. He has killed a few frogs in his enclosure but that is about it. I keep his weight at around 1lb. 6oz to 1lb. 6 1/2oz. Hope this gives you something to work with. Clive
I Had a similar problem with fester, although he would chase things but not bind into them, and rake off at the last second. His was a confidence problem.
What I did was to drop his weight as far as I could I think I dropped him to 1lb 5 3/4, and then I took him and my son out hunting, and as usual we caught nothing, well apart from a stoat, which doesn't really count :)
So I got my son to tie a dead rabbit to a creance and hide it in a bush, then as we approached he ran off draggin the bunny, which Fester thought was very amusing, but not worthy of him taking off for!!!
We tried this a couple of times, and then I opened the rabbits hind quarters with my knife and put Fester on it, afte a second he identified it was food, and started to eat from the exposed flesh. I then took him off again, and got my son to run again with it, this time he took off and landed next to it, I git my son to run again, and after a couple of times doing this he landed on it. I took him off again, and we di it again, after about 10 tries he was binding into it. But that is not the end of the story.
He then started to chase rabit a lot more, but would then still veer off, until the spring, and the baby rabbits came along. He caught one, and I let him feed up on it totally.
His next one 3 days later, I let him feed a bit from it, and within 2 months he was taking 3-4Lb rabbits, not bad considering he was 1lb 6 at this point.
I didn't put him into moult until really late at this point as he had one last this to do in his first Hunting Year.
He settled down nicely to a whole Quail the day after he took his first Pheasant. :)
Hi Owen, He binds well to dead rabbit and pheasant etc. but when we're out he at present doesn't take much notice of anything. I will be going out with a club member and their bird which may give him an idea of what he should be doing. I'll keep you all updated in the near future.
Sounds like he's never really got into quarry. Try feeding de-yolked chicks - wash the blood out of them too - for a few days. Maybe rabbit front leg with casting. Try and get a fuller crop with less nutrition. Aim to get him to about the minimum weight he has been (1.6oz I think you said) and if you can try and get a fullish crop the day before (they feel hungrier if they are used to bigish crops of food - bit like us, big meal the night before and you feel hungry again by next lunchtime).
So on the day you got him to 1.6 fly him in the early morning for a bit(if you can) and feed him by 10ish.
Then fly the next day in the afternoon when he should be keen and just under 1.6 See if you can show him some easy quarry. Moorhens are pretty good if you can find them. Hopefully he will show a bit more interest.
Don't try him on rabbits at this stage - very unlikely he'd be interested. Can you get him following on through a wood with a good chance of a pheasant appearing? Pheasants often move on the ground before they flush and a keen hawk will spot them and show interest - sometimes flying off 50 - 100yards in front if they see quarry moving.
If none of that works get someone with plenty experience to check him out when he is down at 1.6 - fell his keel - asses his condition. They will be able to tell if you can take his weight a little lower.
Hi Andy, Sorry I haven't got back earlier; I do at present take out the yolks and he has been flying consistently at 1lb. 6oz, to 1lb.6 1/2. Tommorrow I am going out with a friend who also runs his own Raptor centre. We are going to one of his grounds which he can guarrantee lots of pheasants. Usually they flush around 25/40 at a session; as well as my bird flying with another, he should get the idea. He knows what to do as he chases stones that have been kicked or sticks but we haven't been lucky enough to get any flights at quarry which he probably feels that he is in with a chance at. He watched a couple of rabbits on Saturday but they were 200 yards away, so I wouldn't expect him to go after. At least not until he has taken a few,and built up his confidence. I will let you all know what happens after tommorrow. Clive.
Hi Andy and All, We had an exceptional afternoon; kier flew very well and was extremely responsive. On the downside, we flushed around 15 pheasants and Kier took no notice; his sister Shannon chased several but did not bind with any to conclude her mission. Kier had a golden opportunity at a cock pheasant standing in the open and 50 yards from any cover. We got to within 50 yards of it before both birds took flight; his sister flew to the copse on the left and waited, kier flew straight towards the pheasant, straight over its head and perched in the lonesome tree 50 yards on I guess with more outings with regular 'hunters'and more quarry he will get the idea of what he should be doing. On the plus side, it was the first time Kier has flown with another bird and his manners were impecable. I have confidence in him and look forward to go out with Julian and his team again. The weather was on the dismal side as it was drizzling, which possibly didn't help either. I'll keep you all posted as time goes on. Clive
Hi all, Today I was invited out again with freinds on a hawking day, to give kier a little more experience. This morning he just followed the other birds and didn't take much notice; but after lunch he seemed to have his hunt mode switch turned on. He entered 5 times without success but he showed keen interest and was quick off the mark. I think now it is only a matter of time before he binds onto either a rabbit or pheasant. A great day was had and he deserved his rewards. Clive:
Hi Gaz and all, I feel that Kier is very fit as since December I have flown him hard and in strong winds (20-30mph). On Saturday we were invited out on another Hawking Day. The morning session he just observed and looked pretty. The afternoon session, seemed as if someone had switched on the hunt button. He beat the regular birds to the quarry but just didn't get there in time!! Clive
Hi every one, Today Kier earned his wings...... he took his first rabbit and am I feeling good?!!! Without going into too much detail, he flew 50 yards and dropped down hard; next thing Iheard the shrill cry of a rabbit in distress. We made in to him and I dispatched the bunny. After getting both hawk and prey out of the undergrowth, I let him sit on his kill for a few minutes. Without any screaming from Kier I was able to remove the rabbit and he was rewarded with a whole chick. After bagging our prey, we went straight home. I gave him the rabbit when he was back in the weathering to feed on. I think that this virtually concludes this thread. I will have to start another one shortly. Clive and KIER
